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63 Responses to “Who Watches The Watchers: Australian Threatened With Arrest Under Australian Anti-Terrorism Act For Being a Citizen Journalist”Trackbacks
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[...] at Tech Wired Australia, Ben Grubb has a stellar piece about the victimisation by police of citizen journalist Nick Hac who last Friday was “threatened with arrest under the Australian Anti-Terrorism Act 2005 for [...]
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[...] Who Watches The Watchers: Australian Threatened With Arrest Under Australian Anti-Terrorism Act For … [...]
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[...] Who Watches The Watchers: Australian Threatened With Arrest Under Australian Anti-Terrorism Act For … [...]
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[...] Who Watches The Watchers: Australian Threatened With Arrest Under Australian Anti-Terrorism Act For … [...]
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[...] A news story on Tech Wired Australia reports that an Australian man was threatened with mandatory arrest under anti-terrorism laws unless he surrendered his Blackberry mobile phone footage of police searching another man in public. Who Watches The Watchers: Australian Threatened With Arrest Under Australian Anti-Terrorism Act For … [...]
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[...] At no time did they seem to calmly request him to co-operate. Read more here [...]
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[...] Can this shocking story possibly be true? I cross post here in the hope that journalists with real resources will follow this up. Comments (0) | Permalink [...]
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[...] Source | See Also under Prohibitions: Lawyers slam CSIS on phone recordings | CSIS monitoring calls between suspects and their lawyers [...]
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[...] by aussie_bob to worldnews [link] [44 [...]
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[...] Nick Holmes a Court, director of web design and digital strategy firm Shifted Pixels, found himself threatened with arrest after attempting to act as a citizen [...]
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[...] “The world we are living in is becoming too restrictive, I was just being a citizen journalist cap… [...]
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[...] report of police confiscating a mojo’s mobile phone is a worry both for journalism and democracy. [...]
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[...] Grubb, an eighteen year old who runs a web hosting business on the Sunshine Coast, blogged about it here. He followed up with a podcast interview of Holmes a Court. (Today, Grubb is boasting that his [...]
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[...] story got off the ground thanks to Ben Grubb breaking it first on Tech Wired Australia. Particular thanks for providing some of these links go to Shaun Garrity, Rowen Atkinson, and [...]
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Thanks techwiredau. If anyone has any questions pls feel free to contact me nickhac gmail.
I didn’t know what my rights were in this scenario, can you help? My privacy was deeply invaded as they looked through my sms/email/photos/msn on my blackberry – yet I had committed no crime!!!
This is absurd. They definitely didn’t have the right to take your private property, being your Blackberry, away from you without your permission, a warrant, or probably cause — and then to go looking through your contacts, etc?! The police have definitely out-stepped their line in this case. Did you get the names of the officers who interrogated you? These people were state police, I presume?
The 2 police officers who forcefully removed my blackberry and threatened me were both female (blonde) kings cross local police officers. I was too stunned/intimidated to ask for their ID or names… i wish i had.
They were extremely rude and acted “drunk with power” as police officers. They told me to shut up when i asked them what crime i had comitted.
As a kings cross local, i look to my local station to serve and protect, not to intimidate, harass and violate my privacy right in front of my own house…
Ah, if only you had gotten their names it would have been easier for a formal complaint. Do you use Twitter or IM, Nick? It would be interesting to ask you some questions.
@zzap
Nick is on Twitter @nickhac
Just after Terrence recorded that Qik video in London, he posted it to the Phreadz multimedia forum. It is by far the most viewed video on the system.
If anyone else should happen to have anything like that happen to them again in Australia, simply email any video, audio or photos to oz@phreadz.com and it will automagically appear in the ‘Oz’ channel on Phreadz http://oz.phreadz.com under the ‘group’ oz account – then they officials can delete to their heart’s content – yet it will still be there for the world to see!
oh.. and here’s the video thread of the London incident on Phreadz – with replies : http://politics.phreadz.com/v/15ROH206TI2T
I guess there will be a test at some point. The deletion of data from your device is definitely outside the bounds of their authority. I’d like to see them try that with a news team from any mainstream media outlet. I hope you managed to get some form of ID from the officers involved. Post your story on one of the Norg sites (http://perth.norg.com.au/) – there’s bound to be enormous interest from other CitJs. This behaviour needs to be brought into the spotlight.
If a cop wants to do anything with you, that you don’t approve of – insist they make a note of the event in their notebook, then in this case – refuse to hand over the phone but accept a ride to the station to be taken into custody, basically insist they charge you with something. There is no such thing a gestapo blanket law, next thing you know they will go through your bag / your apartment / your car, without asking.
Plus, don’t let a few bad eggs ruin the whole force for you, you can bet theres alot of them not happy with their comrades abuse of these Bushian laws.
Terrorists.. Communists.. Nazi’s.. excuses to pervert the course of civil liberty have existed for decades..
Remember..
Big brother is watching.. but litte brother is watching back.
Not suggesting anything but… I’m sure that items deleted aren’t permanently gone…? Hint hint…?
That’s just ridiculous. Absolute complete utter disrespect. They had no right to do that. I feel for you Nick.
Shaun_R
This guy sounds like a tosser. Fancy filming someone trying to do their job! What a loser.
I wonder if he like to video kids playing at the beach as well…
Jac
Thank you for your articulate criticism.
In my humble opinion, it’s fairly small minded to draw correlation between pedophilia and protecting freedom in a democracy (by monitoring the actions of the police).
I suppose you also support suppression of government bloggers in china as well as the filtering of the Australian internet to “protect the children”
Although, I do appreciate your input to make the argument seem all the more rational.
Regards
Nick
Nick,
‘Protecting freedom in democracy!’ LOL what a joke. The only freedoms you have are the ones afforded to you under the law.
Can you show me which piece of legilsation gives you “the right or freedom” to film people in public?
I didn’t think so.
Cheers
Jac
Thats just wow.
That they would remove the device from you and then go through it is way beyond what they should be allowed to do (if they are at all allowed to).
Makes me think twice about what I video with now, and I think I’ll be putting the pin-code lock back on my iPhone for situations where I need to turn it off.
Also, dunno if they have it for the blackberry but yeah, qik would definately have come in handy in this situation, no records and they’d need your details to go online and delete it
Jac,
since you’re the one with the bone to pick, you drag up the legislation that affords the police the power to harass and intimidate a law abiding member of the public, by confiscating their private property and deleting their data.
In future Nic, insist that that they bring you up on charges; even disobeying a police instruction would force them to weigh up the consequences of invading your privacy against having to justify their own behaviour in a court of law.
There is nothing wrong with taking photos, or even video, of an event in public where any reasonable person would consider said event to be in full public view. Asking permission is only a courtesy, which of course may help you avoid such conflict in future.
Jac,
While I don’t have the Terrot legislation at hand. I think the police have overstepped their bounds in reagrds to the law that protects nick. I would suggest he seek legal advice and take the matter further.
Jac
Australians have open and unquestioned rights to take photographs and video of people and public places. This includes our public servants.
The details are here.
http://4020.net/words/photorights.php
Thanks for the opportunity to research and address your questions, although it does occur to me that you are just flaming. But by all means continue – it doesn’t get a rise from me personally, and as you can see from the community – ultimately your comments are just fuel for the fire.
Cheers
Nick
Jac
To answer your question specifically:
“Unauthorised” photography in Australia has in fact been authorised since the 1937 High Court decision in Victoria Park Racing v. Taylor (1937) 58 CLR 479 (at p.496).
This was reaffirmed recently in ABC v Lenah (2001) HCA 63, where the Court ruled that despite the passage of decades since Victoria Park, any concept of a “Tort of invasion of privacy” still does not exist in Australia.
As Justice Dowd put it with blunt clarity in R v Sotheren (2001) NSWSC 204:
“A person, in our society, does not have a right not to be photographed.”
http://4020.net/words/photorights.php
Wow, I thought stuff like that only happened in the US under the Bush Regime!
jess
http://www.privacy.es.tc
This is nothing more than a example of how our rights are slowly being taken away from us. They probably was doing something (police) that was up to no good. Why else compensate a video? Come on’. The whole terrorist thing is such bulls”"”. They use that as a means to inject fear into people and as an excuse to stay in wars. Terrorist law? How about you stop taxing the hell out of everybody and fix the economy first? That’s the real terrorist. Damn
These a British cops not Australian???
Your cocky attitude irritated these policemen. Just a hint for you.
It’s almost worth putting a nasty surprise in all your pockets and deliberately getting yourself stopped so they stick their hand in it.
Sorry I am with Jac on this one.
The two offiers were trying to do their job. Legally or illegally you should have respected their wishes Mr Hac. One way to avoid imfalamming the situation is to say “ok sorry” and delete the footage in front of them. The cops were trying to do their job without being filmed by another party.
By the way I assume if your house was broken into and you wanted the cops to assist you your attitude twards police power would be different. Everyone is up the cops and police power until they are a victom of crime and they then need police assistance. Imagine if it (the house break in ) did happen to you and the same officers were there to take your statement. Differerent story then isnt it??
The terrorist’s have won.
Jac is a copper.
Stories like this actually make me WANT to go out and get a video camera, plus external cameras which can be connected via wire and attached to things like cars, motorbike, bicycle helmet etc. Our rights need to be stood up for, even if that means going out there and making ones self seen doing actions we have every right to do. It shouldn’t be discouraged but encouraged.
Jac you got owned you fucking faggot.
Did you go to Kings Cross police station and speak to the guy in charge, and demand an explanation?
There’s a whirlpool thread going on regarding this also.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1110497
I am a lawyer. I have experience of this personally and for a former client Oliver Hopes, all in the public domain now. That’s a new excuse to me. I will have to come back and read the comment string. I saw this via Marg Simons crikey blog The Content Makers.
Regretably while on my limited/restricted certificate and unemployed I can’t give you legal advice, even pro bono, without a principal superviser (what a damn spider’s web the legal profession really is).
Anyhow google Chris Merritt legal editor The Media in The Australian. The defendant was the son of an abc staffer. I did his case until my principal bailed on me mid 2008 (the schmuck) so I flicked the case to more experienced practitioners. A good win for citizen journalists.
Oliver won his case after the Redfern station based police made him go through his phone and delete footage. Actually it didn’t exist as he forgot to record but they didn’t know that at the time
Actually here it all is:
Tuesday, 16 September 2008
NSW Police Force ramp up secrecy says News Corp, civil liberty folks
Mood: not sure
Topic: nsw govt
at my
http://www.sydneyalternativemedia.com/blog/index.blog/1841828/nsw-police-force-ramp-up-secrecy-says-news-corp-civil-liberty-folks/
and especially notice story about Matt Khoury who was also arrested in Darlinghurst area on very similar censorship angle.
Arrested for witnessing a police raid | The Australian Matt Khoury | June 12, 2008
at
err just to add regarding our precedent quoting friend, don’t forget the possum abbatoir case in Tas where if memory serves the tort of privacy or maybe statutary right to privacy from pesky animal cruelty activists taking unauthorised footage was upheld. In short free speech is a bit of a shaky principle in our society also, not just privacy. But I still think that was a crap decision given it was a commercial premises not exactly a private residence.
Zacilost, As far as I’m aware, there isn’t a powerful politician named Bush (as in “bushian”) in Australia. I’m aware of a U.S. president with that name, but he has no power in Australia. Stop being an idiot and fix your own damn laws and cops and don’t drag other countries into your internal affairs.
err, as to identification look closely at the photo of blonde haired constable whose name should be there too at the SAM linked story. Constable Phillips to be exact. Is that your officer in question this time? From memory she was fast talking with the sophistry down at Central Station.
I’ve seen the same thing during an anonymous anti scientology protest is sydney. The police forced a young bloke to delete footage off his camera.
Surely the police have no legal right to delete your images or prevent you from filming. Have you formally complained ?
This is reminiscent of the case of the chp who was arrested on Bondi Beach for taking photos on a mobile phone but he was eventually aquited.The problem I see is that I don’t think the cops understand the law.
I take exception to Daved C’s comments. Dave C…the police are paid to do a job, they don’t do it out of good will and YES-if I am burgaled I fully expect them to be there promptly and take the correct procedure ( although they did none of this when I was last burgaled). Just because they do one part of their job correctly this does not give them the right to push people around and make spurious demands particualrly when those demands are not lawful.
I’d also question the mental suitability of the actual coppers invole and whether they are suitable for the job. I’ve met some great cops in my day who do a good job and I’ve met some foul ones and my experience has been the less lawful they are the mor useless they are.
ps: As a 30 year Kings Cross resident -Kings Cross Police Station has one of the worst reputations in the state..but not as bad as the old Darlinghurst nick !
In the Police Officers defense policing his a very hard and difficult job. That being said though as an ex Police Detective with 15 yrs experience before leaving its just another unwarranted , possibly illegal search and siezure, perpetrated by an ever increasing inexperienced Police Force. If people knew how often this actually happened they would be aghast.
With the number of junior police running around and the loss of police with senior years of service it bound to increase in frequency. (two stripes no longer means experience, once it took 10 yrs to get them, now they get them in 5 and 1 stripe a 1 year!!!!!!). Knowledge of how to effectively and properly use the ample number of Police Powers comes with time and unfortunately thats what many police now lack in the job.
I would have made a formal written complaint. They would have been given a directive memorandum at the least and have to come up with a reason for a unlawful search and seizure of the property. At least it would most likely go down as a conciliated complaint and be on their record permanently.
For future reference always get their name, they must provide it!!!!!
Send these two back to training, they need more.
The difficult part you face is what can you do on the spot? Resist? Then get charged.
So what’s he going to do, reef his phone back? Tell the cops to piss off? What was missing was another camera on this incident.
I read on another news report that the victim did go to KX Police station intending to make a formal complaint and was talked out of it by the duty officerwho said he would “have a word” with the officers concerned and “get Police media” to train them on the laws re filming in public.
As an ex cop I can assure you that all formal complaints are taken seriously, and are one of the most stressful parts of being a Police officer. Unfortunately, whilst certain officers appear to get the benefit of informal resolution of complaints at the Supervisor level before they become a formal complaint, I have personally been on the receiving end of the complaints system being misused to deliberately ‘load up’ an individual officer who was not popular with management, as a means of wrecking this Officer’s record. I have also met many other officers, including some at Kings Cross, who have been unfairly subject to misuse of the complaints system to ‘load up’ their record with negative findings.
So yes, put the complaint in writing and it will be taken seriously and will cause the officers incvolved a lot of grief. They will have to answer questions truthfully or face the sack-no right of silence for Police under investigation for a (non-criminal) complaint, no matter how minor the complaint.
But before you leap to judgement on the Officers concerned, remember there are two sides to every story and we have only heard one side. Were the Officers also being hindered in their duty? Was there a genuine national security/terrorism issue? Something big was obviously up with all those Police running around with video cameras-very unusual.
Such things as matters of national security do occur believe it or not and there are laws to deal with it. Sometimes its best to not be too quick to ’stand on your rights’. The Police don’t know who you are, you don’t know what dangers they may be dealing with at the time, and for all they know you may be involved in the incident or hindering them as they are dealing with possibly a life-and-death or otherwise highly charged situation.
Some guy blunders into the middle of a crime scene during a police operation, smoking a fag. When asked to move he starts taking videos like it’s all some kind of entertainment, then when as he gets pulled up for hindering the officers in the execution of their duty and for filming where he had no business filming, he starts bleating about his precious rights being violated, and starts posting blogs about it, giving only his side of the story. I’m not saying this is what actually happened, I don’t know because I wasn’t there and neither were the other commentators on this forum. I’m just saying it’s an alternative perspective, isn’t it??? Perhaps there is more to the story and perhaps the Officers were at least partially justified under the circumstances? All I am saying is we weren’t there and we don’t know the full story.
But if a complaint is made there will have to be a full investigation and the full truth will come out. But before you lodge a formal complaint, be certain that the officer really deserved it and wasn’t just doing their duty. If whhat we’ve heard from the ‘victim’ is the full truth and he was not at fault in any way, then I’m surprised he hasn’t already lodged a formal complaint. Sounds a bit fishy to me.
The police are corrupt. What the hell did you think all this time. It’s been obvious for years. Now what are YOU doing about it, aprt from whining? I hope everyone here learns there cold hard lessons NOW before this gets out of hand. People must use their political and monetary influence to destroy these corrupt police. There are dozens of them who deserve this. Police generally are an inbred clique of brainwashed idiots.
Thanks for your in-depth comment ExCop
Full disclosure, in 2004 i worked for the NSW Police as a Microsoft Consultant in their Web and Information Systems Department (when I was just a young pup getting some commercial experience). As a result I have some awareness and exposure to the Policing system.
You are right in many regards, my story is representative of only one side of the event. And I’m sure the officer on the other side of the table would say i was being a jerk. Quite frankly i wasn’t respecting their “authoritah” and probably valued my own civil liberties above them getting the job done. A debatable topic.
I wholly admit – was probably being a bit cheeky when i decided to film them. And to be honest I was deliberately making a point about the rights of the citizens to “police the police”. I didn’t expect the reaction I received though.…
I do agree the officer in question, who I believe illegally searched my device and invaded my privacy, was probably was just trying to do her job. I’m sure she did feel intimidated that a 6’6 suited man in glasses was filming her – we all feel awkward when we are on camera – I know I do. But based on this and her demeanor i had assumed she was a relatively inexperienced officer. I have subsequently found out she is a reasonably high ranking detective – tbh I expected more.
Thomas Jefferson said it best “The history of liberty is a history of resistance”. Looking back through history – the government and the police have never issued liberty – liberty has only come from citizens standing up and being cheeky and drawling lines in the sand and saying these are our rights. This is what I did, motives and attitudes aside.
Apparently liberty and freedom are important things. Think of all the actions we take in the name of freedom. Even today thousands of people die every month in the name of “freedom and liberty”. 500k Iraqi’s and 80k+ Americans have died in Iraq in the (potentially misguided) name of freedom.
The idea that these terrorism and move along laws that were put in place to apparently protect our freedoms has been abused by our government, and to see these same laws now being used to take our freedoms away, is a complete hypocrisy. Granted – the police are only the enforcers of these laws and not the decision makers. Our government is ultimately accountable and not the police.
To be fair, I think the point has now been made. I have at this time decided not to take any formal action against the police officer in question. I’m sure she has felt the heat already. I was very angry at the time that my personal and corporate privacy was invaded, but looking back a week later – I feel some remorse that potentially this event may have impacted the career of an otherwise highly capable officer/detective. Unfortunately for both sides of the table – this is the “cost of doing business” in a free society.
As an outcome – and it is now clear as day – if you are a public servant (and especially a police officer) working FOR the people, your citizens are allowed to film you and your actions are accountable to the public. Abusing your power and your “authoritah” is not acceptable and will in future be recorded by citizens who now know their rights to do so.
Let’s hope this event and the coverage cements these rights and responsibilities firmly in the mind of every police officer and citizen.
Nick
ps. i warmly welcome the officer in question to contact me directly
Make the complaint and stand up for yourself, or back off and look like you might have provoked the confrontation.
Citizen Journalists are just citizens, and do not get the same rights as a media. But the way he was treated is totally un-acceptable. As a citizen he still has rights.
Hey Joe,
Citizen journalists are “just citizens”? I think the only time media get more rights than citizens is when you have to be ‘accredited’ to attend an event. Then the people with accreditation have more rights than those without, but in the general scheme of things, media have no more rights than citizens.
The only thing media have to argue on are the same rights afforded the general public. Which is MORE reason that the rights of the general public are important in these sorts of situations. The media have no special rights, and themselves are “just citizens”… I’m pretty sure. Just more ‘clout’, or bargaining power, perhaps.
I have added a fairly self referential summary of what I think is needed for good community media at Marg Simons thing here:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/contentmakers/2008/12/29/mainstream-media-came-to-the-party-lateish/#comment-127
What I think was added by way of teamwork was this: political framework of Right to Know existing in the big media making their help much more likely, and second legal expertise of the Oliver Hopes, and Matt Khoury cases which The Oz legal editor and Media section published. The other factors I am probably a bit patchy on are: Third is production skills in publishing online, and fourth is solidarity amongst new and indeed old media for mutual benefit.
Good job. I agree don’t attack the police, go hard on the principle of transparency where appropriate.
And now see this story from Sydney Daily Telegraph and join the dots. Culture of protecting the profit motive? I do think so:
Police profit as TV pays up for reality crime shows | The Daily Telegraph 29 Dec 2008
at http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24850227-5006014,00.html
Can’t have pesky bloggers diluting the franchise folks? Well it’s over. No more exclusive deals for tv shows. The new media is here and we want to ‘play’, but in fact actually do serious community media too.
Point taken too about coppers are everyone’s mummy and daddy when the proverbial hits the fan with criminal violence etc, so it’s all a matter of balance. On balance I like transparency! Because it stops corruption.
Hmm, very cognitive post.
Is this theme good unough for the Digg?